Living Psyched: The Weather Outside is Frightful, But We can Make Our Mood Delightful

Join hosts Paul Wagner and Ray Christner as they explore how seasonal changes impact our mood, productivity, and mental health. In this Living Psych episode, they discuss how shifts in daylight, weather, and daily routines can affect everyone and offer practical strategies to help you stay balanced during these transitions.

Throughout the episode, Paul and Ray unpack the biological effects of reduced sunlight on our serotonin and melatonin levels, and the impact this has on mood. They emphasize the importance of maintaining a routine, staying active, and being mindful of eating habits as the seasons shift. Additionally, they explore tools like light therapy and the role of good sleep hygiene in combating seasonal blues. The conversation also touches on how essential social connection and intentional self-care become during colder, darker months, especially when it feels easier to withdraw.

Whether you're experiencing seasonal affective disorder or simply notice a decline in energy as the days get shorter, this episode provides valuable insights to help you navigate these changes with purpose.

Tune in now to learn how to manage seasonal shifts and boost your emotional well-being!

To hear more and stay up to date with Paul Wagner, MS, LPC and Ray Christner, Psy.D., NCSP, ABPP visit our website at:

http://www.psychedtopractice.com

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“Be well, and stay psyched”

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Transcript

Living Psyched: The Weather Outside is Frightful, But We can Make Our Mood Delightful

Everyone and welcome to the site to Practice Podcast your one stop for practical and useful clinical information. Masterful insight from experts in the field and A Guide to Daily Living. I'm your host, Paul Wagner. And joining me is Ray Christner. And today we have a living sector episode for you focusing on some of the seasonal changes and just the impact they have. Yeah. And, you know, I think the reason we made this kind of a living psych episode is the fact that it does just really impact all of us, right? I mean, it's who we all can kind of go through impacts of different, you know, the different seasonal pieces. And there are some real simple ways I think we can get through it. So that was it was fun to just kind of talk through kind of different options that people have. You know, I couldn't help but reflect and be like, Oh, no, but that ad, that ad, that ad. That's right. You know, and if we stop and pause and really kind of listen, I think there's more there than we maybe recognize at first glance and that, you know, that being the and one of the motivating factors here But yeah, so great for you as you're kind of going through what stood out for you as a takeaway. You know, I think we we talked about a lot of good kind of little interventions, but I think kind of the broader thing for me was, you know, even something that's out of our control, the fact that the seasons change, we do have the ability to be intentional or purposeful in understanding kind of how we're reacting to it. Maybe more than that, the steps that we can take and that, you know, we listed a lot of things, I think, through the episode and, you know, there's no perfect formula. But if we really pay attention to ourselves, we can kind of put maybe the right formula for each of us. And so the intentionality, I think, you know, kind of came across and I wasn't thinking that before we recorded. So how about for you, you're talking about personalizing. And actually, I think the thing that stood out for me is maybe a bit more of a general area which has been, you know, in so many of our episodes, the topics of diet, sleep and exercise come up in some way, shape or form and which makes sense. It's, you know, the foundations for self regulating and self-care. But I think the idea of expressing when we're going through changes or, you know, adapting, being, you know, extra intentional in those three areas really can make such a powerful difference in, you know, maybe helps give us that little boost of mood or energy or ability to concentrate you know, persist through challenges. So I think that that stood out for me today. Yeah. And I think that's a great point. And you know, that combination of the fact there are these general areas, but we can be intentional on how we use those different areas ourself. And yeah, and it's a great point. And for those of you listening, we'd love to hear your thoughts on this. If there are some things we didn't mention that you feel would be useful, please join us on social media. We'd love to hear from you or feel free to go to our website and just shoot us a message. And with that, we hope you enjoy this Practice in Action episode. The weather outside is frightful, but we can keep our mood delightful. Well, Ray, we're back. And, you know, today, going into a topic that is impacting, I would say, just about everyone to some degree or another, and that's talking about the changing seasons and impact they have on our lives and not only in our lives. I think you know how it affects our mood, how it affects our thoughts, how it affects our behavior. And, you know, I think when we talk about seasonal affect, people think of it maybe because they've heard things like seasonal affective disorder, which, you know, we want to call out absolutely something that, you know, there are people that go through. But I think where we're going to focus today is really on the fact that we all go through some seasonal changes and kind of being aware of those and maybe finding some ways to prevent the impact or at least mitigate the impact can be helpful for people. Yeah, and I think something that's valuable to call it is that depending on the climate or the area that we're in, I think changes the experience of it. But I do think there's an experience that's had throughout. And so, you know, the further north we go, you know, we are we see a really severe change that's going on in terms of daylight, you know, versus the amount of hours that it's dark outside. You know, as we get closer to the equator, maybe not as much, but, you know, there's then just different other types of seasons. So rainy season or no, I think we're now in hurricane season. So, you know, we're talking about some of this transition as we're going from summer into the fall and winter months. But, you know, I think it impacts everyone here. Yeah, I agree. I mean, you know, I think we're we're we're addressing this with maybe the larger population of summer to fall. But, you know, there are such things as, you know, I think research is about 1% of people actually have a summer affective condition that summer is actually a negative time for them. And and it can create some issues. So yeah, I think this, you know, maybe on a broad sense, we're going to talk about maybe how we all adjust no matter what our location is. Yeah. Well, and as we're talking about this and preparing, you know, some of the things that we were trying to brainstorm is that, okay so when we're talking about seasonal affect, where do we see it the most? And, you know, some of the areas that really are coming to mind is like one is just our overall mood, you know? So as you know, we're seeing that the days are becoming shorter, less sunlight, maybe feeling like less productive. You know, it can then have us feeling, you know, having a greater sense of maybe dread or, you know, feeling, you know, a bit more lethargic. And sometimes we maybe misappropriate where that's coming from or how that's manifesting in our lives. Like, what are your thoughts there? Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting because I think there's a there's a lot of dynamics related to season changes. I mean, I think, one, you just like you said, that the productivity that we have in some ways just naturally changes. You know, I mean, I know in the summer time, you know, I get off work late, it's still daylight. I can go outside and still do things. You know, there's more things we're doing on the weekends, whether it's, you know, picnics or, you know, sporting things that we can go to, whatever it might be. You know, our schedules are full in the summer. And and I would say for the most part, with good things, you know, we're taking trips, we're doing all these things. And then, you know, school starts for kids and schedules now tighten up. And, you know, for those who have summers off, they go back to work and all of these things. And so our our ability to do things and maybe even just taking care of things around our house might change. And so I think part of it is those environmental pieces that I think the other environmental pieces, you know, you mentioned about reduce sunlight. I mean, I think that's a lot of the at least the research that's out there does suggest that reduced sunlight does have a biological impact. We produce less serotonin, we produce less melatonin. And, you know, even things like vitamin D deficiencies become more kind of risk factors. So we might physically feel different from those changes. And I think such a valuable thing to call out because, you know, whether it's clients I'm sitting with or friends or even myself, like if I'm not attentive to that, the impact that some of those changes are having, you know, it can really start to build up and manifest in ways that, you know, maybe I am a bit more aggravated or maybe I'm putting things off and feeling that a sense of like, oh, you know, why even bother? Or like that and or with productivity, you know, like those increased schedules and. Maybe I'm feeling more overwhelmed and more stressed and feeling quite literally. There's not enough hours during the day writing, you know, really focusing on that daily piece of it. So I think it if we don't attend to that, it can then feel like it's a personal failing or it's a personal experience that we're then judging ourselves and laboring labeling ourselves. And part of that, I think, is also it can then bring on some negative thought patterns that are there when we are kind of misappropriating or you know, our thoughts being influenced by these environmental factors are taking this tone of, you know, I'm either dismissive or things or feeling helpless, hopeless, feeling more overwhelmed, feeling more aggravated and irritated like. So I think a bit, you know, mood thoughts, you know, the experience of stress and like all of these things are really important factors to keep in mind. Yeah. And I think definitely having people pay attention to the fact that we do have to watch, attributing it to a behavior of our own or, or labeling, labeling ourselves with it. You know, I shared before we had we were recording today I had somebody just this week who, you know, who's a very active working mom does I mean, she she is I mean, does a ton of stuff. And she started describing herself as lazy. And, you know, when we started breaking it down, it was just, you know, they're they're not able to do things that they were doing all summer long. And rather than kind of acknowledging and, you know, maybe just accepting the fact that this is where we're at in the year and our lives are changing, she kind of started this personal attack. And, you know, that can get down to really unhealthy paths. And I'm grateful for her first kind of bringing it up. And we were able to kind of process through that. But sometimes I think people can take that and just, you know, again, kind of assign something to themselves that is just something we're all going through. And one other thought that comes to mind, and I think it's a contributing factor, is these are typically the months that we see an increase in sickness and illnesses during which I think can also contribute to physically having the impact. But also it then, you know, adds pressure adds, you know, I'm behind at work because I had to take some sick days or, you know, things are piling up around the house because I haven't had the energy and motivation there. So all of these different pieces that that plays such a big role and even, you know, I was having a conversation with my wife and she's just now getting over a cold that, you know, for a moment like it did really kind of drain her. And then there's some negative talk there that's like, oh, you know, I'm not doing enough. And it's like, well, like, let's take some time to really kind of look at it accurately. I want you to give yourself some grace. Like, let's not have those harsh, negative thoughts. So this might be hasty to say, but of all the different impacts, I think that's the one that we don't recognize that it's there. But it there is almost kind of like it's silently chipping away at our, you know, our self-esteem, chipping away at our motivation. So I really think that's an important piece to be to be mindful of. I mean, it can take us down a rabbit hole for sure, you know. And so, yeah, I mean, I think, you know, as we're talking about these these things, I think one thing maybe to encourage people to do is, yeah, when you when you are feeling like, okay, maybe I'm not productive or maybe maybe your mood is kind of getting in a little funk with the winter know pause for a second and just kind of maybe look at okay what what's changed that that's that's affecting this you know we can't control the sunlight. We'll talk about maybe some ways to deal with that, but we can't. But, you know, there are some things that we can pay attention and make adjustments to our our behaviors. And but I think sometimes we jump so fast to conclusions that we don't problem solve through it. And, you know, like, you know, we've talked about with a million other things. Yeah. It's like it's pausing, kind of functionally going, okay, what's what's going on? What's changed for me other than daylight and all of that? What are the things that are affecting, you know, for me, me personally, like, you know, I've I'm already missing certain things that happened in the summer time that I was able to do. And, you know, I don't want to call it grief in that that sense, but there is a little loss of it, you know, and I'm kind of going, yeah, I can we clear till next year to do X, Y and Z? Yeah. But for me, I just pause for a second and go, all right. I mean, it's just it's just what it is. And next year, here's what I'm going to do. And I started already. You know, I'm planning my time at the beach now for next year. And it's just a change of mindset. It's just that reframe we sometimes have to do. You know, I think that reframing it in so many different ways is so valuable and it can also then help and inform if it's feeling like. Less productive. You know, how do I reframe then? You know, what am I expecting in myself? How am I approaching this? And maybe we're creating more opportunities for that? Or if it's, you know, I'm feeling a greater sense of like I'm missing out on opportunities or things, like, how can I be more intentional if it's not season specific? How do I work to accommodate? So if it's, you know, I'm used to hanging out with my friends and, you know, we go out and we hang out outside, you know? You know, and to maybe date the episode, you know, just coming off of I think it was Tropical Storm Ophelia and it made for a really rainy and kind of like a drab it's being gloomy, drab time here in South Central P.A. and, you know. Okay. Well, for wanting to connect socially, probably not going to be outdoors at this point. So how do we then, you know, either having people over or finding common areas that we can go to and working to really make that a priority. But again, if we're used to those like we see summer as the norm, if it's just so easy, some of these things might take more effort. But it doesn't mean we can't we can't experience them. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that social pieces is interesting. You know, I mean, we've brought up the topic of connection multiple times, but it's definitely easier in the summer. Like, I mean, I just I just think about how many times over the summer I have conversations with my neighbors and and neighbors who I'm very friendly with, but we're not friends that go out with each other. But it's, you know, you pull in the driveway, they're sitting on the porch, you say, hi, you walk over, you have a conversation, and before you know it, the next neighbor is coming over to you. And it's like a little lawn party that is absolutely enjoyable. I mean, people I enjoy kind of, you know, hanging out with and but, you know, that's less now. You know, I go home now and it's dark or pretty close to dark, if not dark and no one's out. It's chilly outside. So, you know, but that social connection on a more casual sense, you know, I would I would say probably for many people, the summertime brings more opportunities for that, whether it's where we're going or, you know, kids playing baseball or whatever it might be. We're definitely in more social groups, I think. And there's one other area that like, it's, you know, probably centered more here in the U.S. than most other countries. But something that has come up in the therapy session, you know, quite a few times since it started. And it's the impact of, you know, disrupting sleep schedules because staying up late and watching football and, you know, now it's football season and it's like, you know, if if your team's playing late, you want to stay up and support them or I'm staying up late on Sunday night watching the game. Maybe it makes for a more miserable Monday night. And if I'm staying up late Monday night watching the game, maybe it makes for a miserable Tuesday and so and the NFL's great at adding now Thursday night football then it's Friday right so yeah so pretty much you know half of our week we get impacted by you know this is that's a that's a great point because again it could be a really good positive thing for us, but it does messes with our sleep schedule. You know, we're staying up late, so maybe some people have a few drinks. So that might make you not feel, you know, as good the next day. And we have to add the fact that the game doesn't always go in our favor where my mind is going. Absolutely. So it's sometimes I think, you know, then we're in a little twisted mood just because it didn't go as planned. And so, you know, it's it's this kind of layering effect, I guess, like, you know, nothing like de-escalating right before bedtime, you know, coming off a frustrating loss or, you know, a nail biter moment there. So yeah. And you know, all of this to say so that if we can pause and be intentional and mindful and aware of, you know, what is the impact, what's changed, you know, physiologically what's changing, you know, environmentally what's changing, and how does that help to let us have a more informed response to what we're needing to be doing. And so, you know, we live in a great technology era right now. So, you know, if you have a really busy Monday, but you want to stay up late and watch, you know, the game on Sunday, can we record it? Can we, you know, is there that ability to then go back, certainly hoping maybe stay off social media, like don't get the results spoiled. But, you know, can there be opportunities there where we're able to do these things and make accommodations? But I think for us to be successful with that, we have to be very intentional and aware first. Yeah, I agree. And I think that if, you know, whether it's just those of us that have, oh, just typical seasonal changes that that most of us experience or even, I would say those who have something that's more related to seasonal affective disorder that in. Tension and then really problem solving around some some solutions. You know, I almost think as we listed some of the reasons we've almost. Even highlights to what the answers are. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's the what's the steps that we take? And, you know, I think one thing and again, we this is common we've said this with other issues is I think just people getting a different routine. And, you know, but the key is getting a routine. And whether that's and maybe you do need more sleep in the winter time. Yeah, I'm pretty much ready for bed earlier in the winter. I know that. And so, you know, accepting that and saying, okay, like, you know, bedtime is going to be a little earlier and you know, maybe, you know, we're getting up at a consistent time or we're setting exercise in our day, whatever it is, trying to build something kind of the new normal for the others, for the new seasons, I think is important. And, you know, one piece that you mentioned there, I, I think want to pull out because I think it's such a valuable thing of routine, but I think it also like wanting to give it a certain focus and physical activity because again, when it's a bit warmer out, it's a bit easier to like naturally be more physically engaged with activities, whether that's working outside or again, you know, going to different events, walking around for, you know, bears and things like that. So as being physical and how easy it is to let that physicality go during the as seasonal changes. And, you know, I know I don't really want to go outside and go for a run when it's rainy or when it's, you know, it's really cold. And yet how can we you know, if it's it's important either, how can we adapt? You know, maybe we're getting a gym membership. Maybe we're, you know, setting like setting up, you know, pulling up a YouTube video of doing some exercises or some yoga, Pilates, things like that, you know, on the TV. And how can we just make sure that we are kind of giving our bodies as physical outlets? Because if we don't, then I think also, you know, then have a ripple effect of, you know, if I'm not exercising, know, I can tell the difference between when I'm active and I'm not. And it's harder to self motivate, harder to focus like, you know, it has a deficit on a lot of different areas. So yeah and I think it goes back to one it, you know, it just helps regulate our body in general. But you know, we do know that exercise increases serotonin and we know that it does help us with things like melatonin production. And, you know, we feel more tired at the end of the day. And yeah, I mean, I think it's important. You know, it it's funny because I, I when I always talk about like exercises like this, I always kind of go like, yeah, sometimes we make it too complicated. Like, you don't need a gym membership and you don't have to have weights. And you know, yeah, I remember my grandmother who lived to, you know, she was in her nineties, you know, she would sit in her living room and just do basic things like, you know, stretching exercises and everything. And through her whole life. And it was such a healthy thing for her and such a, you know, it was just such a routine. Every day she did the same thing, and and it wasn't complicated. She had no equipment. This was well before YouTube and all of those things. It was simple things that she probably learned when she was in a high school gym class that she just made part of her life. So sometimes I think it can just be simple stuff, you know, I think the routine physical activity, very important pieces. And, you know, I think along with that, we can talk about like being mindful of our diet. You know, certainly, you know, during the fall and winter seasons have a lot more holidays coming up, a lot more food centric holidays that, you know, maybe we're not getting into the healthy eating patterns, but also and correct me if I'm wrong here, Ray, but I think there was also a study done that shows that during the you know, during the fall and winter seasons, we tend to also then increase our cravings for carbohydrates. Yeah, absolutely. Like starch, like starches as well. We do. Yeah. I mean and it's I don't know those studies in depth, but that's that's been talked about for many years is that, you know, it's it's not new. But yeah, I mean, it's we start eating comfort foods. We start eating those foods that, you know. And it may not be bad for us, but they definitely weigh us down a little bit. Yeah, there are certain things that are more carb heavy and and you can kind of think about that in the fact that, you know, we're coming off of summer months where, you know, I I spend my time at farmers markets and getting fresh produce and eating fresh fruit and all these things. And, you know, that's kind of fading away. I think we still maybe have apples season here, but we're, you know, we're seeing some of that lessened. So. Yeah, definitely that and I think the other pieces paying attention that we're we're eating kind of omega three fatty acid rich diet. I mean I think that's the other piece to it, whether that's seafood or salmon or something or even supplementing and you know, which I know many people do. And I guess I'd add on that, you know, the other kind of nutritional pieces we do know vitamin D levels are lower for some people. And, you know, I always say I tell patients all the time if they're really starting to feel tired, you know, maybe contacting their doctor, your blood work to see where their vitamin D levels are at and something we can also, you know, maybe supplement and has been shown to help both mood and just energy levels in general. So we're talking about maybe some of these wells that we can use and engage with without too many external supports for that. One thing that that came up in our conversation, though, that does require some very specific tools and I believe has been shown to be fairly effective, which is a light therapy. And you were telling me like some of the specificity behind that you might kind of share in some of those pieces. So, you know, yeah, I mean, some light therapy is like, you know, not a new thing. It's been around for quite a while. And, you know, there's not wonderful research, but there's actually some pretty decent research. And essentially for about $20, you can buy what's called a light box on Amazon. And there's a few little things. Most of the research on it says you have to have a light box that has an thousand lumens. So it's a bright light. And essentially what what light therapy is, is that, you know, in the morning or some people, I think do it at other times of the day, but generally the morning. But this bright light on and you sit in front of it and do other things while you're in front of it. But about 20 to 30 minutes that tries to basically substituting for maybe our lack of sunlight to help with mood. And you know, we've seen it again in research, have seen some benefits from it. Is it perfect for everyone? Absolutely not. But definitely something that people who are more prone to mood issues doing 20 to 30 minutes each morning, they may get a reduction in symptoms and something that, again, you know, while you need to get something for it, it's not buying $1,000 total, which is a should a kind of a small purchase and something that at least is worth looking at to try to substitute natural light on. The other end of that, though, is if people maybe aren't comfortable doing that, you know, as the daylight lasts every day, being purposeful about getting out in it. So, you know, if you are somebody like, you know, for me, I come to work dark, I leave my office dark, and I need to make sure during the day, you know, lunchtime, get outside for a little bit. And, you know, even if it's a little bit chilly, just standing outside, getting some fresh air and doing that throughout the day can be helpful. So is a one piece of it. But if that's not something that you're comfortable with, just making sure we take advantage of what light is available to us when we're talking about light something that I've suggested in in the therapy setting before and even have some experience personally with it, which is sometimes it's difficult in the mornings when it is still just pitch black out, actually getting up and starting to be productive. And there's certain clients that I work with that it's just like, you know, it's really dark. I just can't seem to get myself out of bed like I can during the summer or during the spring. And we talk about, okay, can you can we look at some wi fi lights or, you know, lights that are set on a timer, that are on a that have a dimming capability that okay. At a certain time it simulates, you know, maybe not necessarily as bright as a sunrise, but all of a sudden now in my room, okay, there's light. So when my alarm is going off, I can also see and it's not then me fumbling in the dark, but, you know, some light, you know, coming on automatically and getting progressively brighter. And for the individuals that have been, you know, kind of shared that struggle, trying that out and it's worked really well, I do think that they actually make something called a sun lamp that almost supposed to be pointed at a wall or windows and simulate that. A bit more specifically and like. But, you know, I think there's like 5 to $10 wi fi lights that you can do pretty similar things with as well. So again, has a bit of a cost there. But if you're finding yourself struggling in some of these certain areas as part of it, being aware of it, and then we can have very intentional responses that lets us be more successful with that. Yeah. And I, I think for people who really struggle, you know, the the idea is to, to try a few different things and, you know, there's no there's no perfect, perfect formula to these things. But there's, you know, a lot of different combinations that I think people put in in place. You know, the other thing I think I would add, we talked about the social piece of this, and I, I think that's another area where, you know, we do have to put some thought into what socializing looks like over those winter months for us. And, you know, it's different. It it comes with its own consequences, you know, I mean, it's, you know, maybe we invite friends over our house, but then that means you go to get your house ready and you're probably preparing food and your. Yeah. So that, that's a little added stress, but trying to at least, you know, making sure that we're we're around people that we enjoy being around. And I get it. We see our, our friends at work and all of those things. But really trying to go beyond that to have some interactions that maybe are more playful interactions that that are just work kind of conversations. But people, we just want to have fun in intentional social interactions with them rather than, you know, easy or passive social ones. Right. Right. Absolutely. And, you know, even with finding ways of adapting and addressing even some of that stress, I know in previous years with in hosting that, you know, what's the menu? What's that going to be? And that can be really stressful. And then coming to the point of like it's a potluck bring, you know, everyone something, you know, it takes that system, some of the stress, some of the burden. And then we get to try new and different things. And so again, like we can run up against some of these challenges and then, you know, feels like we're stuck at it, but we're being able to really set the intention and be like, okay, what is the issue? It's like, it's a lot of money or it's really stressful. It's a lot of time concern, okay, well, what can I do to to mitigate some of those factors there? Yeah, I think the other piece with that is, you know, I and I do this, so I think it's c I can talk about it in the sense of, you know, in the in the winter time, I really do have to try socially because I really don't want to do anything. Like I'm there to like I'll sit there and go like, oh, I really don't like I'd rather just kind of hang out and just take some time for myself at the house. And while that might be good at times and I truly do need those times, I also recognize that that's that's a bad pattern. And, you know, again, so intentional peace and kind of really kind of going, all right. You know, could this be the fact that I'm really not engaged? And when I do, it's it's really interesting because I think I go through the same pattern every year when I do this, as I'll be like, I really don't want to really want to don't want to host people don't want to eat, don't want to do all these things. Then I go, okay, we have to do it. And then it's just a wonderful time and it's actually, you know, we have a lot of fun and yes, it's a lot of work, but completely worth it at the end. Like it ends up being this really good thing. But again, we've got to pay attention that we don't get in our own heads and we know it's easy to find all the roadblocks to not do it. I am good at that sometimes, but making sure that we say, all right, you know, wanting to and needing two or two different things and this one we just need to do right now, it's going to be a good thing for me of all the times I don't want to work out, but I know once I finish, it's going to feel so much better. And I think it's it's a very similar experience. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think maybe the kind of and you know, one last thing I'd kind of want to throw in is, you know, again, pay attention to sleep hygiene and and know that comes up with with other things as well. But, you know, over these winter months, you know, accepting the fact we might need more sleep, some people do. And that's that's not a bad thing. We have to listen to our bodies. But making sure we do have, you know, a good kind of, you know, routine around it. Other thing I'd say around sleep in the winter is in the summertime. We're outside doing things. We're not on devices. We're not we're not doing screens, or maybe we're not doing them as much in the winter. We're maybe doing that a little bit more and recognize. Think that can you know, that can affect our sleep. So, you know, trying to power down maybe an hour before bed and, you know, really kind of being, you know, kind of purposeful in how we're repairing our sleep routines can make a huge difference and having that set at set time to do that. You know, I tell patients all the time, you know, two things power down, you know, an hour before you go to bed and don't turn a lot of light on in your house at night. So we're talking about light that you need during the day. But at nighttime, you know, put some lamps on, let it be a nice calming environment. Let your body naturally produce melatonin and maybe engage into a different sleep routine. And that can really can do a lot for us over those winter months. And I don't think we we give that as much importance as it needs to have in in treating a lot of things. But, you know, with seasonal, we just have to realize, you know, we we do a little hibernation ourselves, so we need a little bit more sleep. Absolutely. Well, and I think, you know, certainly not a deep dove into all the nitty gritty interventions, but hopefully something our listeners can kind of one pause and reflect, recognize maybe the seasonal impact that seasonal affect has for them and hopefully some strategies that you can use to make it a little easier, a little bit more successful and, you know, getting ready then for the next seasonal shift and change, you know, as we're going back into maybe spring, summertime. So the seasons will always change. Well, with that, we hope you enjoy this episode. You can certainly join us for next week, but until then, you will stay psyched. The information contained in this podcast and on the site. The practice website is intended for informational and educational purposes only. Nothing in this podcast or on the website is intended to be a substitute for professional, psychological, psychiatric, educational or medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. 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